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 My son is asking about my military time (currently 1 views) |
| Frenchie |
| Posted on: March 10th, 2014, 1:58pm |
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Maximum Member2 LIke to hear from anyone that was Co C 4/31
Posts: 407
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Sam:
I dont think ive seen you post about your uncle BOBBY VICKERS at the
http://www.196th.org/ site ....post something there....they have a lot more traffic.
Post under the GUESTBOOK tab
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Frenchie - Gilbert E Manasselian
C 4/31 Feb 68 to Feb 69
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Reply: 30 - 46 |
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| Sam Weatherspoon |
| Posted on: March 10th, 2014, 5:59pm |
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Minimum Member 
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Hey Frenchie, I took your advice and posted on the guestbook. I'd looked at those posts often and hesitated to join in for some reason. Your asking questions thread gave me an excuse to jump in here, so thank you. I thought everyone did the burn barrel thing. Never thought people would volunteer to do it. Guess it makes sense if you don't want hump all that weight. Something you didn't say you carried was rope. Wasn't there some terrain that you guys had to go through that was so steep that someone had to have rope? Or was this a rare thing? Watching movies you only see rice paddies and jungle, but looking at pictures says there are LOTS of mountains.
Carlfryman: If my uncle was at Kham Duc...Wow. While I don't know for sure, that could explain a couple of memories I heard as a child. One was that he survived a bunker explosion, and another about a aircraft (I heard it was a helicopter) that was supposed to extract/evacuate them that was rushed and boarded by others. Then it was shot down w/ no survivors. BUT, my grandmother is the one that said he was a lrrp, and that he went into Laos even though it was illegal to do so, so he made not have been at Kham Duc. Hoping someone can definitely tell me what his unit was for sure. Not sure exactly of his dates of arrival/departure were, but you both may have been on the same aircraft going and coming. You guys are the closest I've come to real info and you both are a great help to me. I've been at a dead end for 2 years on this. Thank you doesn't come close to my appreciation for you and Frenchie. Sam |
My train of thought derailed- There were no survivors.
HHC 711 Signal Bn 142nd Signal Brigade 1985-1992 & 1996-1998
Alabama Army National Guard
U.S. Army Reserves 2000-2002 |
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Reply: 31 - 46 |
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| Frenchie |
| Posted on: March 10th, 2014, 6:31pm |
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Maximum Member2 LIke to hear from anyone that was Co C 4/31
Posts: 407
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Sam ...no ropes...the ONLY time i saw a rope was the one time it was decided we would cross a river (deeeeep) with a swift current ...they had a guy attempt to go across with the rope and the "plan" was to anchor the rope and have the company maneuver their way to cross the river.....welllllll, the guy almost drowned...managed to save himself but jettisoned his pack and that was the end of the low tech crossing.....they found a chopper to ferry us across....i know we all saw the lesson in AIT where they said never to use established trails....we always did so no need for ropes and it was never that steep where the rope would be used...paddies and dikes and jungle you got it..and plenty of hills around the valley.
you probably know the story but here is the info about Kham Duc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kham_Duc i dont know why a movie has not been made of it yet!!! it would be a hell of an action movie.
...we missed it but we were told were were gonna go there...of course at the time ii had no clue where it was....in regards to your uncle being in Laos, i wouldnt doubt it...we were on LZ Mellon and at the time we were told we were in Laos...in the last few years ive talked to a couple of our officers.general on down and they tell me we werent.....but i cant get past the time they told us we were there.
Glad you posted on the other site......ive seen guys reconnect after 40+yrs
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Frenchie - Gilbert E Manasselian
C 4/31 Feb 68 to Feb 69
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Reply: 32 - 46 |
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| Sam Weatherspoon |
| Posted on: March 10th, 2014, 7:50pm |
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I agree that there SHOULD be a movie about Kham Duc. For lots of reasons. I bet if people were told it was true, they'd never believe it. So much stuff there. If you haven't read this, you might want to. Its a thread at armchair general forums that go into some real detail about the Kham Duc actions including some events leading up to it. The poster did a great deal of research before he posted. Some of the stuff is in the wiki also, but more detail and pictures. Hope this link works for you.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117587&highlight=kham
Some of the people there are vets and really know what they are talking about. In fact, I'm signed up here because of Jack Krohn (a 196er).
You know, now that you said "river crossing", most of the river crossing stories I've ever heard involved some poor private damn near drowning. Guess some lessons don't get around enough to keep em from happening over and over! Sam |
My train of thought derailed- There were no survivors.
HHC 711 Signal Bn 142nd Signal Brigade 1985-1992 & 1996-1998
Alabama Army National Guard
U.S. Army Reserves 2000-2002 |
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Reply: 33 - 46 |
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| Frenchie |
| Posted on: March 10th, 2014, 9:54pm |
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Maximum Member2 LIke to hear from anyone that was Co C 4/31
Posts: 407
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That river crossing was interesting.....it was an accident waiting to happen....during that period , we had extensive rain and i was watching and over a period of hours in the area i could see the water level actually rise...we had never done a water crossing with ropes before. In fact i cant recall ANY water crossing by chopper either. The guy that did it was
a small 3rd Platoon Puerto Rican man....they told me he barely had time to pull the quick release straps on his Alice pack. I dont see how he was going to make it across no matter what....the river was wide and the current was very swift due to the increase water from the rain. The other problem was that the rope STRETCHED and it didnt take long before he was under water. |
Frenchie - Gilbert E Manasselian
C 4/31 Feb 68 to Feb 69
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Reply: 34 - 46 |
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| Sam Weatherspoon |
| Posted on: March 10th, 2014, 10:19pm |
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| That dude was lucky he only lost his gear. I was in a local guard unit and we went to Korea 3 times total. On my first trip we made a "river" crossing. It was really just a large stream but the bridge wasnt rated for our deuce and a half so we drove slowly through the stream. Turns out that about a hundred yards downstream it was washday and the mama sans got mad at us for stirring up all the mud. We didn't know they were there until they started yelling at us. I felt sorry for them because I knew we were messing up their hard work. Thats the closest to a river crossing I ever had. I spent one trip on a ROK radar site and one trip on a ROK AA site and one trip at Camp Humphries. |
My train of thought derailed- There were no survivors.
HHC 711 Signal Bn 142nd Signal Brigade 1985-1992 & 1996-1998
Alabama Army National Guard
U.S. Army Reserves 2000-2002 |
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Reply: 35 - 46 |
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| Sam Weatherspoon |
| Posted on: March 10th, 2014, 10:47pm |
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| Another question from my curious little mind. I had a M16A1 assigned to me and carried it often. Mine was manufactured by the Hydrastatic division of GM. I think they made automatic transmissions. Did any one else have a weirdo weapon like this or did you frontline guys have mainly Colts? |
My train of thought derailed- There were no survivors.
HHC 711 Signal Bn 142nd Signal Brigade 1985-1992 & 1996-1998
Alabama Army National Guard
U.S. Army Reserves 2000-2002 |
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Reply: 36 - 46 |
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| carlfryman |
| Posted on: March 11th, 2014, 1:18am |
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Sam, I was at Kham Duc. That was a C130 that you mentioned that all the locals got on that was shot down. Your uncle was definitely at Kham Duc. We were trying to get out of that place; a place we never should have been in the first place. 27 great men lost their lives there .
In response to Frenchie's remark about rope, we used it once to get up a waterfall. We had put a 5 minute fuse and a 2 pound block of C4 on a dud 500 lb bomb. The rest of the company was waiting at the top of the waterfall for us. We didn't know that the waterfall was there so we left our packs at the bottom just so we could get to the top safely. The only time we used rope. |
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Reply: 37 - 46 |
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| Sam Weatherspoon |
| Posted on: March 11th, 2014, 3:50am |
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Minimum Member
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| Carl I didn't realize that you were in 2/1. I read "Through The Valley" (yes I have that book, bought after I found out my uncle was in the 196th) and thought you were in another unit...My mistake. What part of Kham Duc were you put into? I've read about the fight there and seen quite a few pics of the place and would like to know. I know that was a pretty rough fight for everyone involved. I'm glad you made it through. That place should have been evac'd as soon as Ngok Tavak was over run. As far as the dud bomb, I'm assuming you used the charge to set it off? I know the VC/NVA would salvage it if they could to use against us. I know nothing about unexploded bombs and other duds. I bet you hurried up that rope. |
My train of thought derailed- There were no survivors.
HHC 711 Signal Bn 142nd Signal Brigade 1985-1992 & 1996-1998
Alabama Army National Guard
U.S. Army Reserves 2000-2002 |
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Reply: 38 - 46 |
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| Bob Kotch |
| Posted on: March 11th, 2014, 4:52pm |
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| Sam, that M16 you had sounds like an odd one to me. Never heard of it. How did it function for you? I had an early M16 made by Colt. It had the open spline flash suppressor, which was great for cutting the wire on cases of C rats. It worked fine for me and I carried it everywhere, every day. |
HHC, MP Plt. 9-67 through 9-68 |
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Reply: 39 - 46 |
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| carlfryman |
| Posted on: March 11th, 2014, 5:15pm |
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Sam, I was in C 2/1. I got to the company on the 17th of Nov 67. At Kham Duc, C2/1 along with B2/1 were on, I guess, the east side of the runway. Most of the action was on the west side looking toward Laos. Delta and Alpha were on that side. I'm not sure where A 1/46 was. E 2/1 was manning the op's. We arrived there on the 10th of May and run out on the 12th. Saw things on the 12th I never saw in my whole tour of duty. The C130 your uncle referred to, was the worst air disaster in history at that point in time. There is a Kham Duc group run by Bill and Ann Schneider. They have had reunions but I was unable to go and also printed a newsletter.
The dud bomb story happened in the mountains off LZ Ross. We put a blasting cap in the C4 attached it to the bomb with the fuse. When the CO said they were clear, we lit the fuse and ran. They didn't tell us about any waterfall. They told us to tie our packs on the rope and they would pull us up. At that point, our own safety was all we were concerned with. After the big bang we went back for our packs. |
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Reply: 40 - 46 |
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| Sam Weatherspoon |
| Posted on: March 11th, 2014, 8:33pm |
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Minimum Member
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| Hey Bob, nice to meet you. I'm not sure of date of manufacture for my weapon, but most of ours were colts. I understood other companies were licensed to manufacture M16s and was really surprised to have the weirdo in my unit. We had a few different makes but I only remember mine. It had the closed flash suppressor on it and I never had a problem with live 5.56 rounds. Blanks w/ the blank adapter were iffy sometimes tho. Now let me tell you something you might not know. I was in a local guard unit for over 10 years and we usually went to Camp Shelby Ms. to qualify. One year all the ranges were booked or something and we HAD to qualify. They booked the local police range for us and it wasn't rated for rifles- only pistols. They gave us a funky bolt with a U-Joint in the middle (you could shake it and it would flop about 15 degrees) and a different magazine-and- a box of .22 cal long rifle (rimfire) ammo. The worst experience any of us ever had. We used gallons of lsa oil that day and got lots of practice clearing jams. It was so bad that they qualified all of us as marksman that day. We never did that again. It was ridiculous. Otherwise that rifle worked great, I loved it. |
My train of thought derailed- There were no survivors.
HHC 711 Signal Bn 142nd Signal Brigade 1985-1992 & 1996-1998
Alabama Army National Guard
U.S. Army Reserves 2000-2002 |
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Reply: 41 - 46 |
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| Sam Weatherspoon |
| Posted on: March 11th, 2014, 8:59pm |
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| Carl, I see one diagram showing C & D 2/1 on the east side of the runway toward the southern end and it looks like A 1/46 was on the west side directly opposite of where you were with A2/1 and B2/1 at the NW and NE section of the runway. With you facing east, your right flank tied into A1/46 at the southern tip of the runway...Does the sound right? Most of the damaged aircraft ended up at the northern end of the runway. I think. As for the dud bomb, did you guys deal with many of those, I mean was it a common job? I've got more questions about the training you guys got when you first got in country, before you went into the field the first time but I'll save those for later. If I ask something you guys don't want to answer, just ignore it, I wont be offended. Sam |
My train of thought derailed- There were no survivors.
HHC 711 Signal Bn 142nd Signal Brigade 1985-1992 & 1996-1998
Alabama Army National Guard
U.S. Army Reserves 2000-2002 |
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Reply: 42 - 46 |
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| carlfryman |
| Posted on: March 12th, 2014, 1:15am |
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Sam, I thought D 2/1 was opposite us on the runway. After 46 years, who knows. I don't think anyone was tied in to us down the runway. They would have been in range of our .50 cal and recoiless rifle on the op that got overrun. I believe A 1/46 was first ones they tried to get out on the 130. A mortar round hit next to the plane blowing a tire and he stopped the aircraft. He went back up the runway unloaded and flew it out empty. I think the pilot was awarded the DFC. One guy got off the op at the end of the runway and we went down to get him. They opened up on us with the .50 cal. We threw the guy on a 2 1/2 truck which took off leaving 3 of us down there taking heavy fire. We probably crawed about 150 meters in a ditch to get out of range before we were safe. Lots of memories from that day!!!
Carl Fryman
C 2/1 1967-1968 |
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Reply: 43 - 46 |
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| Sam Weatherspoon |
| Posted on: March 12th, 2014, 2:30am |
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| Yeah my info may not be totally accurate. I was looking at a diagram that's on another site, it might have been accurate for a few minutes! Check the link that I put in post 33 above and you'll see a fairly good timeline of the battle if you're interested. Quite a few pictures and some diagrams also. You might see some one you know. That's all I had to go by, you probably know if its really accurate or not. What kind of injuries did the man from the OP have? Do you recall? Looks like he came from OP3. Good job on the crawling...You gotta avoid the .50. You guys were some of the last ones out? Sam |
My train of thought derailed- There were no survivors.
HHC 711 Signal Bn 142nd Signal Brigade 1985-1992 & 1996-1998
Alabama Army National Guard
U.S. Army Reserves 2000-2002 |
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Reply: 44 - 46 |
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