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 The Boys of 67, Charlie Company, new book (currently 1 views) |
| Gregory B Peters |
| Posted on: December 31st, 2012, 5:37pm |
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Maximum Member2 B company, 3/21/196th, incountry 07/1966-07/1967
Posts: 173
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A buddy was telling me about this new book. He liked it, but I have not read it yet, but a review of it caught my eye.
"What was so special about Charlie Company and the 9th Infantry Division during the Vietnam War? What set it apart from other infantry divisions during this time period?
Wiest noted that at this time draftees typically experienced basic training and AIT under specialized commands, but they would then be split up and sent to various units. The 9th Division, however, was together for all stages of training, and the units stayed together during their year-long deployment in Vietnam. The officers of the 9th saw this as a unique command opportunity."
This didn't make sense to me, they came over in 1966. Didn't all the units all ready there, like us, the 25th, Ist inf., et.al., come over as units that had been together since the beginning? why was this so special for the Ninth, or was the author in error?
I also note in this review that the Ninth was not broken up half way through and sent to other outfits the way the 196th was. They all left together, but the unit stayed on till 69. Must have been all replacements by then.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/the-boys-of-67-charlie-companys-war-in-vietnam-book-review.htm |
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| Ken McKenzie, C, 4-31 |
| Posted on: January 2nd, 2013, 2:37pm |
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Posts: 131
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We went through all our training together, from induction to deployment. When they split us up in early '67, it was so we wouldn't all rotate out together. I was sent to the 5th Mech, 25th div with a lot of other 196ers. We replaced their original members who had come over with the Division. They had not been together since induction, because the 25th was an established active unit prior to deployment to Vietnam.
I think we were the first to train together and then deploy, but as the war ramped up, several other newly activated units did the same. I think the key was that the 9th was a newly activated Division that was formed of new draftees the same as us. I'm not sure how they "all left together" and the unit stayed in Vietnam. Maybe it just referred to all of the originals leaving at the same time. When I was processing out, I met up with 196th guys from the unit, as well as those that had been transfered to the 25th and 4th Divisions. So, we all originals left "together". |
Ken McKenzie
C-4/31, 196th LIB, 1965-1967
C-1/5(MECH), 25thID, 1967 |
| Revision History (3 edits) |
| Ken McKenzie, C, 4-31 - January 2nd, 2013, 2:40pm | | Ken McKenzie, C, 4-31 - January 2nd, 2013, 2:43pm | | Ken McKenzie, C, 4-31 - January 2nd, 2013, 2:44pm | | |
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| aab3340 |
| Posted on: January 2nd, 2013, 11:21pm |
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Posts: 25
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| I don't know the exact date but it was around the time we moved to Chu lai (April 20, 1967) that a good part of the 196th MP Platoon from HHC including NCOs and enlisted men was rotated to the 9th Div. MP Co. These guys were part of the originals from Ft. Devens that came over by ship. Possibly no infantry units were involved in that rotation. |
Bob Poznanski
HHC 196th. MP Plt.
1965-1967 |
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Reply: 2 - 26 |
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| aab3340 |
| Posted on: January 3rd, 2013, 12:45am |
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Posts: 25
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Reply: 3 - 26 |
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| Gregory B Peters |
| Posted on: January 19th, 2013, 6:15pm |
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Maximum Member2 B company, 3/21/196th, incountry 07/1966-07/1967
Posts: 173
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thanks Bob, this is a good and informative read for all.
Expansion of the Army began in September 1965, when the First U.S. Army organized the 196th Infantry Brigade. The 2d Brigade, 5th Infantry Division, less its personnel, moved to Fort Carson, Colorado, where it was refilled, and the remaining men at Fort Devens became the cadre for the 196th Infantry Brigade. The 196th eventually consisted of three infantry battalions and the brigade base, a reconnaissance troop, an engineer company, a support battalion, and a field artillery battalion. Recruits were assigned to the brigade under a "train and retain" program, which lessened the impact of limited mobilization on the training base.6
The brigade's infantry battalions used a new light structure designed for counterinsurgency warfare. Each battalion consisted of a headquarters and headquarters company, three rifle companies, and a combat support company. The latter organization, similar to that in the airmobile infantry battalion, had mortar, reconnaissance, and antitank platoons. These light battalions fielded about half the number of vehicles assigned to a standard infantry battalion, and the riflemen carried M14 rifles.7
The Fifth U.S. Army activated the 9th Infantry Division, the second unit in the expansion program, at Fort Riley, Kansas, on 1 February 1966, also employing the "train and retain" concept. Filled in three increments, the division included one mechanized infantry battalion and eight infantry battalions. By the end of July the division had graduated the last cycle of basic trainees, and it was expected to be combat ready by the end of the year.8 |
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Reply: 4 - 26 |
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| Bob Kotch |
| Posted on: January 19th, 2013, 8:56pm |
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Posts: 187
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| Greg, Bob & Ken, thanks for interesting posts on the pre and early Vietnam history of the 196th. I didn't realize that the 196th and other units mentioned used the train and retain concept to staff up prior to deployment. Do you have more info regarding the book? Thanks again. |
HHC, MP Plt. 9-67 through 9-68 |
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Reply: 5 - 26 |
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| steve tanner |
| Posted on: January 19th, 2013, 10:03pm |
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Posts: 20
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| Another interesting concept of the 196th boys of 67 was where a high percentage of them came. Around the 1st week of October 1967 a large number of draftees from the midwest reported to Ft. Knox induction center and were assigned to the 196th Ft. Devens Mass. An equally large number of east coast inner city draftees reported to Ft. Dix induction center and were assigned to the 196th Ft. Devens. We did pretty good for a bunch of brave young men who some had never seen a cow and some who never seen a subway. |
Steve Tanner B & D 3/21 66-67 |
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Reply: 6 - 26 |
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| Gregory B Peters |
| Posted on: January 20th, 2013, 12:20am |
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Maximum Member2 B company, 3/21/196th, incountry 07/1966-07/1967
Posts: 173
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Bob, the entire book can be found at:
http://www.history.army.mil/books/Lineage/M-F/index.htm#contents
Steve, I assume you mean Oct. of 1965 since we were home by Oct.1967 :-)
I remember all the deferments Kennedy set up for the increased draft: No married with children, no married, no college student, no first born son of a farmer, and oldest first youngest last. They talk about Vietnam being the war of 18 year olds, but those over early were actually older because of these draft deferments. There were probably more US then RA at the time.
I also got the impression that we were the only one of these train and retain units that were split up halfway through, so the unit wouldn't be decimated by deros dates. It appears the others came over as a group and left as a group, being replaced by another brigade from in-country.
Somewhere in the excerpt I read about the 196th getting orders first to Santa Domingo to relieve the 82 airborne. Not being a boat people, I heard that you guys were first sent home on leave dreaming about paradise and upon reporting back or just before boat loading you were given the new orders to Vietnam. That this was done to head off AWOLS. Any truth to that or just another myth?
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Reply: 7 - 26 |
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| Jim Armstrong |
| Posted on: January 20th, 2013, 1:23am |
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Posts: 203
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| Greg: I kind of think that we knew when we went on pre-deployment leave that we were headed to Vietnam, not the Caribbean. |
Jim Armstrong
C, HQ, A 2/1
1965-1967 |
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Reply: 8 - 26 |
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| Larry D Mcknight |
| Posted on: January 20th, 2013, 1:52pm |
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Posts: 63
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| Jim, I think you are right. I remember telling my dad when we were on leave in July of 66 that we were suppose to go Vietnam and I didn't even know where it was. |
Larry D. Mcknight
B Co., HHC S-4 2/1
1965 to 1967 |
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Reply: 9 - 26 |
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| aab3340 |
| Posted on: January 20th, 2013, 3:06pm |
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Posts: 25
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| Jim and Larry, I also agree that we knew before going on leave we were headed to RVN. I know we left Boston on July 15, 66 but can not recall when we went on leave. I thought it was in June. Even thought I was heavily involved in running convoys bringing our vehicles to be loaded on the ships in Boston I can not remember dates for that. Anybody recall? |
Bob Poznanski
HHC 196th. MP Plt.
1965-1967 |
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Reply: 10 - 26 |
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| Jim Armstrong |
| Posted on: January 20th, 2013, 5:22pm |
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Posts: 203
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I had a sports car that I drove from LA to Devens in September, 1965.
I drove it back west in July, 1966 (through Lincoln, Nebraska on the Fourth).
Then I flew back to Massachusetts in time to catch the boat for the trip through the Panama Canal and back to...LA! |
Jim Armstrong
C, HQ, A 2/1
1965-1967 |
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Reply: 11 - 26 |
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| steve tanner |
| Posted on: January 20th, 2013, 5:53pm |
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Posts: 20
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| sorry guys for the wrong date indeed i was referring to Oct. 65 not 67. stuff happens when you get old. anyhow, our training was riot control with expectations of going to the Dominican Republic for duty. i guess that would have been a cool tour? the day that Col. Wadsworth addressed all three battallions and annouced our deployment to the Republic of Vietnam some of us thought he misspoke and i remember a lot of growning and moaning in the ranks for just a second or two then a hush. after dismiss you couldn't get a phone for the rest of the day. |
Steve Tanner B & D 3/21 66-67 |
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Reply: 12 - 26 |
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| Ken McKenzie, C, 4-31 |
| Posted on: January 20th, 2013, 7:02pm |
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Posts: 131
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As an original, I can tell you that the brigade was assigned leave dates allowing one-third of the brigade to go home at a time prior to deployment.
We were scheduled for Santa Domingo when the first group left on leave, and found out it had been changed to Vietnam before the next two groups left on leave. I remember phoning several members of my platoon who were on the first leave group and informing them they better have a good time, because it might be their last.
Once we knew we were going to Vietnam, two members of my platoon got married while on leave. |
Ken McKenzie
C-4/31, 196th LIB, 1965-1967
C-1/5(MECH), 25thID, 1967 |
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| Bill |
| Posted on: January 20th, 2013, 11:43pm |
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Posts: 18
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| Gentlemen..I really enjoyed the posts I've just read on this subject. I finished reading The Boys of '67 a few days ago. My daughter bought it for me for Christmas. I am grateful to have read this book as it gives me a totally different understanding and appreciation of the need for us Redlegs to expend ammo on a continous basis. I was honored to have served in "B" Btry/8th Arty in Hawaii 58-61 as a gun section chief as part of the 25th Inf. I remember my assignemnt to Ft Devins in March '66 and the trip to Ft Drum, NY to train in Riot Control for Santa Domingo. I remember the section chiefs being called into the cP and told to CSMO as we were h contacteading back to Devins as we had a change of orders. After a 10 day leave I reported back in and was briefed on when and where to have the section ready and that I would be leaving by C-141 w/25 others and equipment as part of the advance party. The rest is history. I do remember the road by the rubber plantation that the 5th Mech cleared as earlier (in later'66) the Bn S-4 and I were leading a convoy for ammo resupply when 2 of our 5 tons ran over IED's and I lost two trucks and two men were WIA. Great book. Thanks for all your service. Bill HHB 3/82 66-67. |
| Revision History (1 edits) |
| Bill - January 22nd, 2013, 8:17pm | | |
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Reply: 14 - 26 |
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