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 NVA Base Camps & Bunker Systems (currently 1 views) |
| aab3340 |
| Posted on: December 21st, 2012, 9:27pm |
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Posts: 25
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Listing of enemy units by Corp (1965-1972). How and where they built their base camps. Comments on US Operations and what we learned including some of the 196th. Nice information but sort of long.
http://alabamavva.org/nvavc/index.html |
Bob Poznanski
HHC 196th. MP Plt.
1965-1967 |
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| Jim Armstrong |
| Posted on: December 22nd, 2012, 12:13am |
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Posts: 203
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That's a great page. It is interesting how they keep popping up these 40 years later.
I am going to go back and spend more time.
First impressions are wondering how much the intel types knew then and the rest of us had no clue.
On one list these seemed somewhat at odds:
"Caution needed to be exercised when burning huts in enemy camps during the dry season so as to prevent fires from spreading to the adjacent jungle."
"Defoliation flights cleared away brush and effectively revealed enemy base camps and supply routes."
And ya' gotta love Figure 4!! |
Jim Armstrong
C, HQ, A 2/1
1965-1967 |
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Reply: 1 - 21 |
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| Gregory B Peters |
| Posted on: December 22nd, 2012, 4:20pm |
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Maximum Member2 B company, 3/21/196th, incountry 07/1966-07/1967
Posts: 173
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definitely something to peruse on a snowy day. I especially like the following comment:
"he 173rd Airborne Brigade (Sep) reported, upon completion of OPERATION SIOUX CITY and THE BATTLE FOR DAK TO, that the use of scout dogs at company level aided in discovering enemy caches. However, it was noted that dogs became fatigued and were limited to approximately ten hours of work each day."
If we limited dogs to just 10 hours a day, does that mean we worked 36 hours a day? |
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Reply: 2 - 21 |
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| Jack Krohn |
| Posted on: December 30th, 2012, 2:16pm |
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Big Member  1stPlt A 3/21 - 1971
Posts: 83
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Reply: 3 - 21 |
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| Frenchie |
| Posted on: December 30th, 2012, 5:16pm |
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Maximum Member2 LIke to hear from anyone that was Co C 4/31
Posts: 407
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definitely something to peruse on a snowy day. I especially like the following comment:
If we limited dogs to just 10 hours a day, does that mean we worked 36 hours a day? |
In our unit since we were in the field 95%+ of the time i would ask the same question...not meant to have a peeing contest going here ...
We toss the word around -AMBUSH- when in fact they were always there and we stumbled on them by accident - usually.
Speaking of base camps....off the top of my head i can recall our unit finding 4 in my stay in the bush. They were all unoccupied but in a couple instances the fire was still smoking. We found weapons of all types, sweat shirts, rubber suits, ammo sealed up like metal tuna cans, regular clothing...a few rockets |
Frenchie - Gilbert E Manasselian
C 4/31 Feb 68 to Feb 69
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Reply: 4 - 21 |
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| Ken McKenzie, C, 4-31 |
| Posted on: December 31st, 2012, 5:02pm |
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Posts: 131
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Frenchie - great comment;
Quoted Text We toss the word around -AMBUSH- when in fact they were always there and we stumbled on them by accident - usually. |
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Ken McKenzie
C-4/31, 196th LIB, 1965-1967
C-1/5(MECH), 25thID, 1967 |
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| Gregory B Peters |
| Posted on: December 31st, 2012, 5:09pm |
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Maximum Member2 B company, 3/21/196th, incountry 07/1966-07/1967
Posts: 173
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good story Jack. we had a unit with us at Tay Ninh also. went out with one a couple of times. I remember one of the handlers telling me that we were our own worst enemy. With our misquito juice, aftershave, tobacco and food we ate, that Charlie could smell us coming or lying in ambush for them, they didn't need a dog :-) While our collective aroma really screwed up our own dogs.
Frenchie, As to NVC base camps, that was what Attleborro was all about. Same with the Boi LOi Woods. and you wouldn't believe how Nui Ba Dinh was tricked out. Tay Ninh was smack dab in the middle of a bunch of base camps and tunnel complexes. Going through them was just an amazing trip, the elaborateness of them. I remember Ken or someone else coming back from a recent trip there stating that the area of tunnels and camps was still a big tourist trap. I think all of our bases were destroyed big time.
Everyone have a great and healthy New Year! |
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Reply: 6 - 21 |
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| Frenchie |
| Posted on: December 31st, 2012, 5:23pm |
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Maximum Member2 LIke to hear from anyone that was Co C 4/31
Posts: 407
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good story Jack. we had a unit with us at Tay Ninh also. went out with one a couple of times. I remember one of the handlers telling me that we were our own worst enemy.
Frenchie, As to NVC base camps, that was what Attleborro was all about. Same with the Boi LOi Woods. and you wouldn't believe how Nui Ba Dinh was tricked out. Tay Ninh was smack dab in the middle of a bunch of base camps and tunnel complexes. Going through them was just an amazing trip, the elaborateness of them. I remember Ken or someone else coming back from a recent trip there stating that the area of tunnels and camps was still a big tourist trap. I think all of our bases were destroyed big time.
Everyone have a great and healthy New Year! |
As crazy as it may sound, finding the few base camps we found I got some satisfaction that made my time in the bush worthwhile....i know, a speck of dust in a sea of sand. Wished we had found many more.
One of the camps we found never made sense to me...I was new meat back then and the camp looked like it was rather new and had not been there long...i dont know where we were...was not Hiep Duc...but the camp was along a creek and every 10 feet we would find kaki uniforms, a mortar shell here and there, someones rifle ...just random stuff...they obviously left in a hurry but there were no large piles of supplies in one central location...never did see tunnels in my field time.
In regards to our smells we put out for the bad guys? i would think the aroma of cigs was probably the biggest smell there was....most of our guys smoked.
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Frenchie - Gilbert E Manasselian
C 4/31 Feb 68 to Feb 69
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Reply: 7 - 21 |
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| MartyOdette |
| Posted on: December 31st, 2012, 11:05pm |
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Medium Member D 2/1 july 69-70
Posts: 34
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| Neat post aab3340, a lot of good information-wish I would have seen it as a 20 yr. old grunt - it might have saved some grief. ohh well, as always, a day late and dollar short. peace and Happy New Year to all you guys! |
Marty Odette D 2/1 11B July 69-70 |
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Reply: 8 - 21 |
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| Jim Armstrong |
| Posted on: January 1st, 2013, 12:56am |
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Posts: 203
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Since it obviously would have been a dead giveaway, the thousands (millions?) of cubic yards of dirt excavated from the ubiquitous, countrywide tunnels had to be disposed of.
I never saw any of it.
What did they do with it? |
Jim Armstrong
C, HQ, A 2/1
1965-1967 |
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Reply: 9 - 21 |
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| Frenchie |
| Posted on: January 1st, 2013, 3:20am |
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Maximum Member2 LIke to hear from anyone that was Co C 4/31
Posts: 407
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that reminds me of how the jungle eats up bomb and shell craters and abandoned bases...same concept I suppose....
The jungle eats up everything... |
Frenchie - Gilbert E Manasselian
C 4/31 Feb 68 to Feb 69
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Reply: 10 - 21 |
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| Gregory B Peters |
| Posted on: January 1st, 2013, 6:38pm |
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Maximum Member2 B company, 3/21/196th, incountry 07/1966-07/1967
Posts: 173
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Jim, sure you saw evidence. Ever walk on a dyke in a rice paddy? Ever notice all the large termite mounds? Why some bomb craters were shallow while others were deep? Ever wonder why the river deltas were so shallow? The majority of the main tunnels were there long before we were. And they learned, from the French finding them, how to hide the dirt. The majority of the dirt was dumped into rivers and dykes.
And like Frenchie surmised, the jungle simply reclaims its own. |
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Reply: 11 - 21 |
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| Ken McKenzie, C, 4-31 |
| Posted on: January 2nd, 2013, 2:26pm |
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Posts: 131
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Quoted Text Frenchie, As to NVC base camps, that was what Attleborro was all about. Same with the Boi LOi Woods. and you wouldn't believe how Nui Ba Dinh was tricked out. Tay Ninh was smack dab in the middle of a bunch of base camps and tunnel complexes. Going through them was just an amazing trip, the elaborateness of them. I remember Ken or someone else coming back from a recent trip there stating that the area of tunnels and camps was still a big tourist trap. I think all of our bases were destroyed big time.
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I remember during Attleboro, we followed a trail through the jungle and came upon a fence of short pungi sticks that wound through the jungle. There were signs warning in Vietnamese that indicated mines. We found a kitchen that still had fire going, and documents hidden in a nearby tree. We didn't have time to look for a bigger camp, but the fence sure was spooky, just winding through the jungle.
During Cedar Falls or Junction City, I was with the 5th Mech (25th Div) and we found several basecamps. One was down in the Boi Loi area and had a jail area for holding people. There were small firing ports connected by underground tunnels, and a well that was over 50 feet deep that had been exposed by a bomb crater. We left without destroying the complex. Maybe it was later bombed. We never seemed to have time to destroy most of what we found.
We found another up near Cambodia in Tay Ninh, with lots of covered sleeping areas.
The Cu Chi tunnels were famous and were uncovered by the 196th and 25th during Junction City. They are now a tourist attraction.
As to our basecamps. The 196th Tay Ninh basecamp is now a Vietnamese military camp, as is the Cu Chi basecamp of the 25th Div. We didn't find any remains of the 4th Div base at Dau Tieng. You can find them on Google Earth. We visited Chu Lai when we were there in 2010, and it is basically gone except for the runway, which they are improving to make it a public airport. |
Ken McKenzie
C-4/31, 196th LIB, 1965-1967
C-1/5(MECH), 25thID, 1967 |
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| Gregory B Peters |
| Posted on: January 5th, 2013, 5:36pm |
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Maximum Member2 B company, 3/21/196th, incountry 07/1966-07/1967
Posts: 173
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| Thanks Ken. I remember a story about a usa camp built on top of a tunnel complex somewhere in the Iron Triangle, and they awoke every morning to find stuff missing, even bunk mates with their throats cut. Think there is any truth to that? |
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Reply: 13 - 21 |
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| Ken McKenzie, C, 4-31 |
| Posted on: January 6th, 2013, 3:06am |
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Posts: 131
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Thanks Ken. I remember a story about a usa camp built on top of a tunnel complex somewhere in the Iron Triangle, and they awoke every morning to find stuff missing, even bunk mates with their throats cut. Think there is any truth to that? |
Probably a good deal of myth. The book "Tunnels of Chu Chi" made out that we never knew the tunnels were there, and they were all under the U.S. bases. I don't know that they ever found anything of consequence under our basecamps. We knew they were there in the jungle, and how extensive they were, we just didn't have the men and resources to deal with them. |
Ken McKenzie
C-4/31, 196th LIB, 1965-1967
C-1/5(MECH), 25thID, 1967 |
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